[rastagirl777]

Daniel - I'm sorry this happened to you. It sucks when a "friend" reveals their true colors.

Kylake, while you may be "new" to Jamaica keeping up on this board and your own experience in your past three trips have guided you at least to make "real friends" - good, hard working people.

Friendships take time to develop anywhere in the world. Friendships are based on trust and comraderie, not "what can you do for me today". I'm lucky that I have developed such friendships all over the world, Jamaica included. I've never had a friend there, or anywhere, ask for a hand-out. My NY upbringing might have contributed to my cautious eye and even more cautious heart - whatever it was I, so far at least, feel I am a good judge of character.

Reading through other message boards I was always struck by those who talked about their "friends" they met on vacation - "got to know" them over a 5-7-10 day period - and then gave them the keys to the kingdom in the way of email addresses home or cell phone numbers etc. It all comes from a good place until it goes wrong. A friend of mine, a musician with a rock n roll band that came to Jamaica to play a few years back made "friends" with a family from Roaring River. These are huge hearted people who felt the plight of that family's poverty. While in Negril they treated this family like royalty, giving them passes to their shows at the All Inclusive, buying them stuff and finally - giving out their phone number. When I next saw my friends they were distressed about having to change their phone number because these people simply would not leave them alone. Put a very bad taste in their mouths about Jamaica in general.

My Jamaican friends now have all my information. Do you think I ever hear from them? Lol, no! They are not spending their credit to call me just to "chat". We call them to catch up, confirm a recipe, what have you. I've always marveled at the fact that people will give out their phone number to someone they just met or know for a few days. It took me years to share that information with my friends in Jamaica - or anywhere else for that matter. Coming from the Grateful Dead scene where everyone wanted to be your friend for the same reasons (share house, share wine, share drugs - by share meaning "we can share what we got of yours cause you done shared all of mine!" - I excersized the same caution.

Blah blah...sorry. Nothing is worse that being dissapointed by a friend is the upshot of all of this - that, and keep your info close.

[captaind on Zion Hill]

I never send money to anyone I haven't known for 30 years or more.

Most of it goes to improving the property I OWN and for the benefit of my family.

Usually it's my call to them asking what is needed each week. My family is of the lower working class and I help smooth out the rough spots. When LInston needs a few dollars to work on the red plate car I'm right there.

I also have Jamaican friends and Brothers whose net worth far exceeds mine. Obviously, when they call is of a social nature.

What I don't get is a visitor who has spent 7 - 10 days a few times in Negril and think they've made real friends in the real Jamaica. It does happen but very rarely.

[rastagirl777]

I think people set themselves up too, in the name of kindness and wanting to help but reputation is reputation. As easily as one gets a reputation as someone who runs around flashing all sorts of money, one gets the reputation as the "giver". I think that is what happened to the girl on the video...in her wanting to help and ease the troubles of the "friends" she made she became the well that those friends and their friends sought out to drain. Some people are stuck in that quagmire of not wanting to appear selfish, not wanting to anger or dissapoint anyone or not wanting to "lose" those "friends" (because the minute you say no, there they go, on to the next "giver").

Which is why, though her video does not come off as bitter, she is of the opinion that most Jamaicans do this. In my experience, this is so far from the truth. Its just as easy to attract good people as it is to attract bad-minded ones - so you nip the situation quickly in the bud, and say NO. If this is truly a friend - they will still be. If not, well...good riddance.

[JonTom]

Thanks for the vid. had not seen it (nor the follow up).

Something about the woman's accent (or the topic at hand) reminds me of that scene from THTC.
Always admired that movie's way of intertwining a story arch, some serious JA topic, and humor (or irony).
In this case Ivan's move from ripped-off country boy to struggling for work, to dejected human forced to beg.
The humor/irony (to me) is the wife's reaction at the very end.
Movie is diff't from book (IIRC), but something like this:
-----------------------------
Ivan, after searching (and failing) to find work as laborer, sleeping on streets, etc. enters the ground of upper-class house and approaches the wife on the porch.

IVAN: How do you do?
WIFE: What are you doing there?

IVAN: I'm looking for work.
WIFE: I don't have any work to give you.

IVAN: I could wash your car you know, ma'am.
WIFE: My husband gets the car washed downtown.

IVAN: I could do your gardening.
WIFE: Look, we have a gardening service to do that.

IVAN: I can do anything, you know, ma'am. Anything.
WIFE: Look, there's nothing you can do for me. Nothing.

IVAN: Beg you for ten cents then, ma'am.
WIFE: What's the matter with you young, healthy boys? All you know to do is beg, beg, beg. That's all you can do just beg?

WIFE: How you got in here, anyway?
IVAN: The gate was open, ma'am.
WIFE: Well, when you go outside, you make sure you lock the gate behind you.

....waits...

Who left the gate open!!!
-------------------------------

Who knows what T. Rhone (or Perry Henzell) meant by this scene for sure, but to me it tries to paint Ivan
as person struggling to find honest work and in the end is forced to beg (or acquiesces to that choice).

Back to this MB topic. We've never recieved "the call", but have certainly had our share of in-person begging in JA.
Whether they felt forced into it, culturally find it reasonable, or whatever reason; we don't know, but we don't acquiesce.
From shoes, high heels, pretty new dress, watch on wrist (and of course $), all has been asked. None given.

Do we have friends in JA? perhaps. Certainly persons we are friendly with and feel a high level of trust for.
The only person we ever gave our phone # to, gave his # to us 1st. We called and caught up after a trip. Never asked us for anything.
We talk every now and then for the past 10+ years. Sometimes he calls, sometimes we do.
Disclaimer that after a few years of meeting him (maybe 3 or 4) he approached me once and started to say "I need 5 dollars...".
I cut him off, said "no, don't do that" w/ my best stare down. He dropped it and we went on to another conversation.
He has never asked for a thing since. I am aware that he struggles somewhat financially, but he works his job.
Never had to explain myself that, either hearing him ask, or my complying, would permanently alter whatever realationship we have.

There have been plenty of other 'friends' that have straight-out begged for $ from us in person.
Or the "Come w/ me to the country to see the real JA". Me: "and what makes you think i've not seen it?"
It is certainly disappointing to be begged, but in general we won't shun those people (unless it is a complete-ass higgler),
we just don't hang around them.

[Westenders]

I think the views of RG and CaptainD are spot on.

I can never get over either, how easily people call the people they meet on holiday as friends. Especially on TA when people describe their taxi drivers as friends and family. Reality is they have been given great, friendly customer service by someone, and this transcends into a BFF scenario.

I think it's probably harder for people with jamaican family, where there is sometimes an expectation that it's your duty in foreign to help. So like CaptainD, we without question support my husbands daughter over there, and have helped make his mums life easier. She isn't a freeloader, she works hard six days a week. This is a regular financial commitment.
I also read that the money sent to jamaica from foreign was higher than the revenue generated from tourism.

Some of the distant members of the family have thought we should help them, but drew a line under that a long time ago.

What I don't like is when we are over there, is the tryers... The bwoy me bruck...me belly hungry conversations. These are not friends just people my hubby knew growing up.

True friends don't ask for money IMO, and I don't feel it's our responsibility to help anyone that we don't already. That said, we don't get asked, and my hubby is on the phone almost daily to friends and family over there.

[macyoder]

"she is of the opinion that most Jamaicans do this"

All Jamaicans I know is of this opinion that most of us do this :-). When this is posted on a FB with mostly Jamaicans, the discussion last 3 seconds with yep wi beg too raatid much. I am Jamaican and I do have the tendency to beg but it seems out of habit. Begging for something can roll off my tongue like butter and bacon off some Americans lips. I am really immune to the begging from others but more bothered by the darn selfishness. There are exceptions but for the most part no one calls to see how you are doing and to say thank you, but they can post on FB. The only way to get something from some is to ask/beg. Begging for upgrade is my speciality, even when the vacation is free.

How to stop the beg from with BS compliments and your own problems

Caller - Macy how yuh a du

Macy - Not as guud as yuh, yuh sound so pretty and nice

Caller - How tings a gu

Macy - Mon , recently mi heart nuh feel right, mi front foot bend backwards but the back hand still works. Mon, wish mi sound strong like you.

Caller - Macy, yuh must memba fi tek care of yourself

Macy- Mi have fi kom back a Jamaica just fi enjoy the good vibe but you voice sound nice fi real. Mi glad yuh call mon, mi heart feel nice to hear from yuh.

Caller - mi just want fi see how yuh a du. (yeah right:-)

As for friends I NEED 3. I to tell my secrets, one to borrow money from in case of emergency, and one to get my butt out of jail if I get busted for something I did not do but the po-po thinks otherwise. These three can changes so now I might be begging a friend to fill these positions.

[jeannieweenie]

That was a good video. Thank you for sharing.

[Allan]

I once got 'the call' from a woman I had never met. Her father was my dad's right-hand-man for many years. She had received money a couple of times before, and was calling collect. The noive! I refused to accept the charges, and have not heard from her since. That was maybe six years ago. Begging can be a bit of a nuisance, and I explain it as desperate people doing desperate things. I have no idea how lucrative begging can be for Jamaicans, but I imagine the ones that do it must believe that it works. I don't expect them to change just because I request them to. I figure I need to find ways to deal with it if the situation arises (like Macy).

[Westenders]

Yes avoidance is the best strategy.
I employ this when over there, when I see where a conversation is going, I switch it up and leave or move on.
With associates I never ask how someone is, I make statements instead, like you look good.
I also sometimes draw parallels like when someone talks about how tough life is in JA, I agree and say you want to come and live in England, there's this, there's that problem, oh the stress. The ones begging get what you are doing and quit the attempt at these points.

I find that some jamaicans think the English are quiet and reserved and not street smart, we all live in quaint little country homes etc..
I leave them with that thought. Suits me fine. Lol

[gerryg123]

I would say 90 percent is about right.