[Westenders]

Just watched the very interesting CNN debate firemon posted on wearing your pants down.
Must say I support the points made by mark lamont hill.
Although I personally don't like the look, I think clothing style should be your own personal style choice, and certainly doesn't always represent historical origins, or not many of us ladies would be wearing red. It doesn't and shouldn't represent who you are either,
Where is freedom of expression too ?

I also think the piece was more specific to the US, which it was meant to be, but relating it to the UK ,this look is a young thing and all races wear the style. It's been around for a long time, and I do think most people grow out of the style, and adjust accordingly for work attire.
It's slightly different here in that it's not the extreme baggy look, males wear their trousers quite tight and low... Don't know how they walk and move lol..
My son in law wears this style and he has his own business, employs a few people and is a father of sons. Him being a role model is so much bigger than where his pants fit IMO.

I agree with MLH point about racial profiling and racism, I don't think this style choice increases that at all. These issues are so much bigger than that. But that is in the UK, not sure how universal this look is over there in the US,not been in a few years.

[Firemon]

For those of you who don't know the droopy pants look started in prison (no belts allowed) and signaled a sexual invitation. It had nothing to do with hip hop at the time although many of the youth think it does now.

So I applaud Malik King and his campaign. "Stop talking, acting and living like thugs; and start talking, acting, and living like men." Wearing pants low contributes to the problem of racial profiling. Think about how we represent ourselves.

As for Mark Lamont Hill, well, I thought he was laughable and misinformed, not to mention disingenous. Okay, sure, they had to have somebody speak out in favor of looking ridiculous, but MLH pretended not to believe the fad's prison origins and then claimed he wore his pants that way 20 years ago when he was 16. Really? In 1994? Yeah right, didn't happen.

[Westenders]

(09-03-2014, 08:53 PM)Firemon Wrote:  For those of you who don't know the droopy pants look started in prison (no belts allowed) and signaled a sexual invitation. It had nothing to do with hip hop at the time although many of the youth think it does now.

So I applaud Malik King and his campaign. "Stop talking, acting and living like thugs; and start talking, acting, and living like men." Wearing pants low contributes to the problem of racial profiling. Think about how we represent ourselves.

As for Mark Lamont Hill, well, I thought he was laughable and misinformed, not to mention disingenous. Okay, sure, they had to have somebody speak out in favor of looking ridiculous, but MLH pretended not to believe the fad's prison origins and then claimed he wore his pants that way 20 years ago when he was 16. Really? In 1994? Yeah right, didn't happen.

I respect your point of view, but your point about saying no one wore their pants down twenty years ago is wrong, they did, certainly in England, and was very influenced by hip hop.
Cannot say that it didn't start way back in prisons, but that's not that relevant today if it's true. There are all kinds of criminals in prisons, not just thugs and people from different racial backgrounds. I believe most young people are wearing it today are influenced by fashion and music. In the Uk this fashion crosses all classes, as I said it is a style choice.
I don't know how MLH can be misinformed, as a young black male who wore this fashion and has experienced racial profiling afterwards.
That crap happens to all ages, particularly men in the Uk, and I've never heard anyone in challenging the act blame it on their pants down.

As I said in my last post, very interesting debate, and may be culturally specific to the US.

[troublemaker_420]

(09-03-2014, 08:53 PM)Firemon Wrote:  For those of you who don't know the droopy pants look started in prison (no belts allowed) and signaled a sexual invitation. It had nothing to do with hip hop at the time although many of the youth think it does now.

So I applaud Malik King and his campaign. "Stop talking, acting and living like thugs; and start talking, acting, and living like men." Wearing pants low contributes to the problem of racial profiling. Think about how we represent ourselves.

As for Mark Lamont Hill, well, I thought he was laughable and misinformed, not to mention disingenous. Okay, sure, they had to have somebody speak out in favor of looking ridiculous, but MLH pretended not to believe the fad's prison origins and then claimed he wore his pants that way 20 years ago when he was 16. Really? In 1994? Yeah right, didn't happen.

http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp While often repeated, this claim has no factual basis. As for the claim this was trendy as far back as 1994, I agree it most certainly was. I was a high school student then, and had MANY MANY friends who wore this style of clothing, and I was hardly in a urban epicenter....I attended a school of less than 120 students in rural western South Dakota, and hip-hop fashion had even found its way there by that point in time, meaning it had likely been trendy elsewhere for a considerable amount of time even BEFORE that. You don't have to like the trend, certainly, but you can't rewrite history to lend credence to your opinions. It certainly was popular among the youth of many cultures by the mid-90s to wear extremely baggy clothing, and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with homosexuality culture. I for one think it looks stupid, but not being a fan of being told what to wear myself, its not my place to play fashion police. if someone wants to look stupid, far be it for me to stop them. Life would be easier if we lived our lives how we thought we should...and allowed others to do the same, even if we disagree with them....

[Firemon]

Communicating that the saggers are unwittingly offering their backsides to all takers when they think they are mimicking admired rappers and identifying with tough guys becomes a way of saying, "The joke is really on them."



This next one is NSFW and well, probably isn't safe for Oldtimer to watch either, but it does depict this new form of artistic expression.

[Westenders]

Harsh, many of us, especially the young uns, are influenced by fashion of celebrities, without any meaningful thought about the history of that style. I don't think it means anything, unless you really are a thug or gangsta, and it's your ' uniform'.

It's a very, very popular style in the UK, without the same connotations.
You even see it on the catwalk, with those tight pant styles, and I see a few girls sport this look too.
Squeaky clean David Beckham even carries this style regularly, and he is one of our leading fashion icons.

It's just clothes..
Agree with troublemaker, we don't have to like it, but I'm sure those wearing the style would think we are all a bunch of old farts lol..
Seriously I think some of these views are generational. I bet the younger ones who don't wear this style don't give it a second thought, just express their own style in their own way.

This takes me back to my young days when I wanted a pencil skirt, oh my dad thought this was morally outrageous, a split in your skirt! lol.

[jitterbug]

men, women and children who suck on a bandana or a kerchief or towel is related to attachment and reactive attachment disorders . . .

that's what i've learned during my years working with displaced / problem / at risk youth . . .

the pants down, have no idea, but i don't care for it.

[Raine]

(09-04-2014, 08:12 AM)Firemon Wrote:  Communicating that the saggers are unwittingly offering their backsides to all takers when they think they are mimicking admired rappers and identifying with tough guys becomes a way of saying, "The joke is really on them."



This next one is NSFW and well, probably isn't safe for Oldtimer to watch either, but it does depict this new form of artistic expression.

Just looks dumb...dwl