I have a question which arises from a post that macy made, but I can't find it. She made reference to being a Jamaican on vacation in Jamaica...........and it's like she said something to the effect about wearing the bracelet to show off that she is or was on vacation in an AI. Now, I know she lives in the USA but bawn in yaad.....and some rough upbringing within the medical sense..and glad she was able to get attention.......I feel funny putting this out there but is there a jealousy thing going on that some jamaicans can afford to go on vacation and many cannot? is there a difference living farrin like Macy does vs living in a yaad that makes more jealousy rise to the surface? Macy is living a wonderful life in USA ( and I'm jealous.....lol......I want the pool....the yard, the weather......lol.) but how does that translate down der to a yardie? Do some jamaicans reading this board sort of live thru her experiences? I am living a bit reading about her travels......lol. I mean no disrespect to anyone, just was wondering and feel if I'm gonna ask anyone it would be the peeps here.

lots of them couldn't be reading this ras as they don't have net nor puters.

Can't speak for Macy and wouldn't dare LOL but himself it's a badge of "I made it to the other side" of the walls they have been locked out of all their lives.

The bracelet is a reminder that I made it behind the forbidden gates.

As for jealousy yes but more because I have a white husband who is presumed rich.

Most Jamaicans would think I am an idiot for spending my money on travel than on a bigger house or car. They would not be jealous of my travel because they would be too busy laffing dat mi fool-fool and stupid.

I chose to live further than closer to my family because I did not want them in my business and question how I was raising my kids. They laughed when I told them that I took parenting class. I needed to break certain cycle and could not do so surrounded by what I wanted to change. Most 'joking' say Macy is white, talking more of a life style, parenting class and dinner with my in-laws.

Henriques, McConnell, Geddes, Isa, Lee-Chin and the list goes on. Real wealth in Jamaiaca.

It took me quite a while to understand how the wealthy in Jamaica could look upon the poor and literally see them as invisible.

I've often told Americans "you don't know what poor is but you also don't know what rich is."

very interesting thread and lots of points I want to pick up on. (Just hope I can remember them all).

First off I was going to say about a Ja lady I know who last year wanted to visit the UK but her visa application was turned down on the grounds that they didnt think she would come back. Poor Dear was gobsmacked "how can they believe I would never return to my beautiful Jamaica?" she despaired over the Red Stripe we shared and nodded at a very beautiful sunset. I believed her. A mutual friend of ours back in UK was going to intervene on her behalf. Last time I spoke to her brother a few months ago, she still had no visa. I will have to chase up that story. 2 of her brothers have been to the UK but would never want to live there. So not all want to escape, they are happy. The may not be materially wealthy but they are blessed in may other ways and are grateful.

Lots of wealthy Jamaican people.

Lots of white people in Kingston and not neccesarily wealthy.

Yes a class system exists in Jamaica, I often wonder how responsible are the English for that as I think we bloomin invented it and still live it. Yes skin tone does matter. Light skinned and you are aristocracy. Have you never noticed at the airports the light skinned girls at check in with their manicured nails and hair straightend to death. Same goes on here in Greece...have you ever flown Olympic? Its not what you know...

You cant judge a whole nation by the pockets of Negril you know regardless of how familiar they may be.

"Drug money established all prominent families" :O I cant believe you said that!

Anyway just as a little diversion, last time in Ja. we were talking with Jamaicans that have travelled. One guy who I hadnt seen since he left the UK was telling me about his flight back. Apparantly he flew London/Amsterdam/Cuba/Kingston/Montego Bay. Then he pondered aloud...
"I dont know how I got that ticket"..LOL.

JaJewel....to answer your question 2005...not really current but not ancient either.I lived in the "boonies" worked at "the plant" ,educated my kids,fly off the handle almost instandly,answer "respect" with "f o" and did just fine.I tip well,eat out alot,drive a car through Kingston all the time and I believe in my heart that most "success" stories can be traced back to ganja and then cokelineo.Never had any trouble to even mention and speak French to the never ending bar flies and beach bums.If you are fragile DON'T come with me BUT!!!!! on the other hand you have peace from the bums.Maybe age is working against me now BUT !!!! Took MANY !!!! Rasta men to parts of the island they have never been (alot of times 10 miles) they are not as brillant and world wise as some seem to think.Like Haille Selassie for example.A very smart peace loving man BUT !!!!! please !!!! he didn't even know that he was the head of a movement .I think that most Jamaicans that see black and white KNOW that there is $ somewhere like alimoney !!!! or Stella settlements.But hey...everybody has to get "some".

BP...I know exactly what you mean !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blues_Pirate,

That's what I was referring to when I said the poor are invisible to the wealthy.

They treat the help like furniture and with disdain. It took me a while to get used to it.

One of the reasons Michael was so loved was the he was a rich man who had feelings for the poorer class.

I think that Americans due to "white guilt" or some other reason seem to empathize with the poor Jamaicans. Americans are giving people on the whole.

It continues to be hard for me to see all Jamaicans painted the same way. There is as much diversity here in Jamaica as anywhere else when it comes to classes. Yes, there may be different percentages of rich, middle class and poor, but they all exist.

Everyone's experience regarding Jamaica is different, and mine obviously hasn't been the same as others that have lived here (though I know a lot of others who don't post on message boards, etc. that do have very similar experiences to my own). It's shocking to me the total surprise that I get from so many people when I tell them that my husband is both Jamaican, a business owner and a professional. Like those things can't go hand in hand. I swear, it seems so many people expect me to be married to a ganga smoking rasta with no real job, no real education just hustling on the beach.

My experience here has also been different than many women show on these boards. I have friends (and even male friends) that I can 100% trust. I will say, I have very few friends, a lot of people I associate with, but few I will call friends, but I was like that in the US too, I choose to have just a handful of close friends. The point is, I can trust them. They have earned my trust (mind you, these friends I can trust are NOT those I met while vacationing in Jamaica).

I lived alone for 4+ years out of the 6 I've been here. During those first years no man ever "flexed" in the yard for me, I was in charge of my house, my yard and what when on in it. Hell, even still my husband doesn't really flex for me, and I don't want him to (I'm too damn independent for that). I never felt in danger not having a man that "showed" himself and flexed on my behalf. I've gotten very little harassment (note that I didn't say NO harassment but very little). Especially where I live now, in a working class community outside of Negril rather than in Negril. If I didn't want to get charged more than things, I would ask around about what the proper price should be for something before going to the vendor or person doing the task so I go in educated. I also don't feel like I have to always get the best deal. Sometimes yes, I want it, but for a service, if I think it's worth more than the "going rate" I'll pay more. If someone tries to take advantage, that's a different story however.

I also don't subscribe to the fact that you have to fit in this tiny box for Jamaican men to love and respect you. What I mean by this is that I've seen so many lists of things that you have to do, or can't do in order to have a decent man. Well, I'm here to tell you, if my husband is out of town, my dogs sleep with me (and my husband is WELL aware of it). I don't wash my rice (neither does my husband or my mother in law who are both Jamaican), I can cook chicken soup, brown stew chicken and curry chicken and that is the total extent of the Jamaican cooking I do (I do sides as well and I I do cook other non-Jamaican food), the list can go on and on and on of the sterotypes I hear of what you have to be to be considered a good mate or a decent person in Jamaica.

I have several Jamaican friends who could care less about their car and would much rather spend there money enjoying life whether it be going out for a nice dinner or traveling or what have you.

Now, I'm not saying Jamaica has been a bed of roses for me, it hasn't. It hasn't all been easy, I've seen and experienced things here that I wouldn't wish on people from seeing someone die on the road in front of me to hearing the gun shots that killed someone and watching him be loaded into a car to go to the hospital, to walking into a shop right after it was held up at gun point, to knowing way to many children who have died from a number of things from being hit by cars to cancer that was misdiagnosed for months. I lived next to someone who we would hear being beaten and she would beg my roommate and I not to call the police, I've seen a man in a very public place try and beat his girlfriend, and the list could go on forever.

I know some very rich people, I know some very poor people and I know some people in the middle. Thinking that everyone in Jamaica is just poor as poor can be and all have the same experiences and perspectives is highly skewed. Not everyone lives on family land in a tiny board with no fences.

One more note, on my little rant that may include some things dealt with in this message and others that probably weren't (sorry for that). When I chose to come to Jamaica I chose a type of lifestyle. If I came here and ended up out in the bush with no running water, no electricity having to cook over a wood fire there is no way in Hell I would be here I would have gone back to the US. As an American I made the choice to live here and to live as I do (not the highlife by any means, but with electricity, water, cable, internet, etc.) and if I couldn't live how I was comfortable I would have gone back to the US because I, just as all other Americans living abroad, have the choice to go back.

I'll be the first to tell you I was as ignorant as ignorant could be on the truth of what Jamaica was before moving here, I doubt I could fathom a rich or middle class Jamaican. I had hardly seen outside of Negril. My eyes have been opened wide and there is a lot more too it than many ever see.

Please, please please let all Jamaicans be represented.

very well said Jamaicame