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+--- Thread: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit (/showthread.php?tid=100863)
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Tim - 03-15-2015
Sure, there are a lot of "I heard", or "I know people that were", stories. The thing is, the vast majority of visitors to Jamaica are not regular contributors to these forums, thus the lack of first hand accounts.
Believe me, my incident was first hand and it could have turned out a lot worse.
I have read plenty of references to the lottery scam but am not familiar to the details. Would anyone care to explain what it is?
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - rootswoman - 03-15-2015
Tim, I am on a lunch break from work, so no time to google
but look for the Dan Rather report on the Jamaican lottery scam.
(you can post link if you find it - if you want so others can watch it - its a major eye opener)
Sigh.
I just read Westenders reply and all I can say is - this does not happen "anywhere" - I am so sick of that retort.
I love Jamaica and her people but really don't feel like supporting all the corruption. I still believe that talking about it is the first step. What we do with this info is up to each of us and should not be judged - we all walk in our own shoes.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Westenders - 03-15-2015
I Tim
I wasn't at aiming that at anyone in particular just a general point about what i have read . I'm not doubting personal accounts either .
The lottery scam involves a person in Jamaica calling north American residents and telling them that they have won a large cash prize but in order to collect the money they have to first send x$ to them via Western Union
As WU tracks a payments to frequent recipients the scammers use different people to collect the fee and pay them a small cut. This process has been huge.
Obviously the prize winners don't receive a penny hence the scam..
What has been happening recently is that money sent to jamaica is now screened, so the scammers are using jamaican connections living in the us...who are paid to collect the prize money over there via WU still, then they are paid bring it to jamaica ...these collectors sometimes keep the money ....putting their families at risk who are still living in Jamaica
It is a big money scam, and is widespread ..don't think for one minute that the authorities are not involved and they obv get a cut too.
It has died down though hence my earlier post linking the rise in street crime to the decline in scamming opportunities.
Someone also mentioned earlier that the new road to negril years ago opened up criminal opportunities. The new road brought more tourists....jamaicans used bush mostly anyway.
Also if you look at the real history of negril, and some of the founders....you would be interested to see how they set up their lives and businesses anyway... People who are now slick, legit people. Some of you older heads are probably familiar with those runnings..
To me what is happening now, has always happened...just different vehicles used for getting the dough...
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Westenders - 03-15-2015
Rootswoman..im not sure what "retort" I made in my post that you refer to?
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - JamaGinger - 03-15-2015
There is validation contained in the alert for the fact that crime has increased.
"According to statistics prepared by Jamaican law enforcement authorities, crime levels have increased across the country in the early months of 2015, with homicides up 18% and robberies up 10% over the previous year’s rates."
The fact that crime levels have increased enough over a two month period for the embassy to issue the alert is validation enough for me (not hearsay) to be convinced that the situation is worsening.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - TAH - 03-15-2015
To me what is happening now, has always happened...just different vehicles used for getting the dough...
Scamming and selling ganja are two very different things.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - JamaGinger - 03-15-2015
And, the Jamaican educator and journalist who wrote the editorial in today's Observer would seem to agree that the recent alert issued by the U.S. Embassy is cause for concern. Read "Jamaica on a murderous slope down to Perdition".
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Jamaica-on-a-murderous-slope-down-to-Perdition_18555721
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - rastagirl777 - 03-15-2015
"Someone also mentioned earlier that the new road to negril years ago opened up criminal opportunities. The new road brought more tourists....jamaicans used bush mostly anyway."
That's been my theory - I've observed the changes myself over the past 15 years. Good things - water system and sewer put in, roads paved. HUGE influx of tourists and even fresh meat from MoBay directly to Ricks and back. Huge influx of tourists = more building = more destruction to the environment because of irresponsible building.
As far as crime with more tourists comes more opportunistic crime. Yes, the bad guys come in from the "back" - the hustlers and higglers on the beach maybe as well - but with easy access comes creeps from all over the island looking to take their "piece" of Negril. Guns and weapons come in too - from MoBay 1.5 hours its a day trip, back in my day it certainly wasn't, lol!
Just a theory - here's another - when that Dudus Coke fiasco took place lots of Kingstonian "bad guys" ran for cover in the countryside all over the island...include the areas around Negril. The Malta Gang wreaked havoc around Grange Hill for years - yeah they "got" THE GUY (forgot his name - it was New Years Eve last year and my yard man came over to tell us - he was in tears he was so relieved)...but what about the rest?
And right in Negril and Redground there's been gang problems for eons. I know a bright and wonderful young man who had to leave the island and his family because of it.
My Jamaican friend who lives in Marin County now seems to think that the young people OF Negril and surrounding area are the true culprits of the non-gun/opportunistic crime. Easy money? When they have none? Perhaps?
"Life is change...how it differs from a rock" Negril is a completely different place than I first visited in 1983 - that I brought my husband to in 1993 - and that I first brought my then 15 year old god-daughter to in 2005.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Westenders - 03-15-2015
Jamaginger...I certainly wasn't referring to a the U.S. embassy alert in my post...I was referring to the Internet sites that are using 'hearsay' and interpreting as fact.
But now you mention it, my question would be what is the breakdown of those stats? Area ie parish figures....and how much of those crimes were against tourists...given my other question of how many tourists report crimes against their person. I was always taught that stats without anecdotal evidence can sometimes be meaningless and should never be relied on alone.
So what is this warning...warning you of...it certainly is not an advisory...which in my opinion would be stronger evidence of potential risk.
So for example the UK government has advisorys against travelling to areas of risk....what is that alert advising you? Don't go? Be aware of risk of these crimes? What about likelihood in certain areas? It's ambiguos (sp) in my opinion. But let me be clear, I'm not saying I'm right, this is just my opinion.
TAH....you totally missed my point by thinking Im referring to selling ganja..I wasnt...neither am I about to be more specific with that statement on a public forum than I have been. Some may have more of an insight to what I actually alluded to.
And yeah I'm quite aware that selling Ganga and scamming are different, but thanks for sharing that info.
Rg....I'm not sure about the philosophising which I felt was in response to some of my points.
Life is change? ... Who you telling... That is an obvious fact no one can argue with anywhere.
A lot of the other facts you refer to I don't doubt ... But there are many in negril, and I know in Hanover,who still view dudus as a god....around the island....his ' care' for the poor is still viewed as better than what the government does for them. I'm not agreeing, but can understand the impact someone like him as on people with nothing and no hope of escaping from a life of nothing.
Of course there has been a long history of gangs in negril. There is still a divide between the red ground and west end communities....even without conflict there is a very strong sense of identity that sets them apart....but not unusual or unique to negril or jamaica really.
I'm not getting in to discussing the Malta gang on a public forum either. I could discuss lots about that..but im not reckless.
I think your right about Kingston men, but I think that is more evident in mobay, hence the events that are going on there....makes negril look like a tea party.
I know lots of folk in Hanover....mother in laws side is up there...and many won't go near Mobay for fear of robberies and violence.
The thing is with negril everyone knows everyone a little or a lot...so they know who and what is going on really.....and it's not something they are going to discuss with any non jamaican easily.
the young ones are fed up for sure....and when I mentioned the increasing attitude of JOP in another thread a while ago it didn't resonate with anyone...
I agree with your statement about the young ones of negril doing a lot of the crimes...the scamming has been integral to what has been happening. But they aren't that young either, mostly 25 plus..
What is interesting to me is what has caused this tidal wave of change where tourists are regularly being robbed in tourist areas, which in the past would have been a huge no no, for fear of repercussion from the police...and negril getting a bad name where tourists are afraid to visit. That was the ethos that I was familiar with for a long while...
And an earlier point about not all people who have been victims of crime in negril come on the forums to share their story....how can that be quantified really...it gives a false impression because it has no factual basis. It has to be based on information that is first hand and factual...or even if someone shares that they know someone personally who was a victim of crime, then for me that would have validity...but to roll on ' I heard ' information from forum to form and Facebook is not a true reflection of real facts.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Westenders - 03-15-2015
JamaGingerAnd, the Jamaican educator and journalist who wrote the editorial in today's Observer would seem to agree that the recent alert issued by the U.S. Embassy is cause for concern. Read "Jamaica on a murderous slope down to Perdition".
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Jamaica-on-a-murderous-slope-down-to-Perdition_18555721
Excellent article
But neither the govt nor the media ever discuss resolves or a way forward for its people.