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+--- Thread: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit (/showthread.php?tid=100863)
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - TAH - 03-14-2015
word.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - rastagirl777 - 03-14-2015
"Im doing the slow clap"
Me too! That was a BRILLIANT rant!!!! (A bit "hysterical" but brilliant none the less)
Some thoughts...then I'll keep my "horseshit opinion & "agenda" (WHAT AGENDA LOLOLOLOL!) to myself:
"instead of admitting you used it incorrectly, much as you disregard the current situation in Negril in an attempt to add value to your opinion."
I didn't use it incorrectly but I did cop to the fact that it might not have been the "best" word to use. In case you don't "get it" the above use of the word "hysterical" was meant to be sarcastic.
"In fact, if believed it puts many people in harm’s way, because it is total BS."
I'm not sure I understand how I'm putting people in "harms way" by expressing an opinion that the chances of tourists being gunned down is slim. Please clarify.
"perhaps a little vigilante group needs to be formed to eradicate these low-life criminals."
Let me know when you organize that and how it goes. When my friends house was robbed 5 years ago the entire neighborhood was out in the bush looking for the thieves. Is THAT the kind of "vigilante" group you are talking about? If so, I guess my neighborhood has a neighborhood "watch".
Things are really not good in Negril right now, I have never denied that and never will. I have friends that I love that live there full time, I'm living there 3 months a year - so this apparent escalation in crime, especially gun violence disturbs me deeply. But I'm a lover, not a fighter so I'll take a page from my friend Audrey's book and continue to write letters to all that SHOULD care...because that's actually something proactive that I can do.
Meantime, I'll be back next winter, with my friends and community. Others may choose different vacation plans - but I won't.
DN.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Tim - 03-15-2015
(03-14-2015, 02:50 PM)TAH Wrote:(03-14-2015, 01:15 PM)rastagirl777 Wrote: "If it were truly only on Lime sreet that would be different but problem appears to be broader than just that one lane/street since you even mentioned problems on the beach unless I misread."
Regarding the SHOOTINGS (not the opportunistic robberies with no injuries) the ones that happened did happen on Lime Tree Lane, the other on Sommerset Lane at 4:00am (in the course of a robbery). These are two areas that tourists do not frequent. Hysterical/Sky is Falling comments to which I reacted concerned the theory that tourists MIGHT get caught up in shootings such as these - a fear based comment based in no truth, just speculation of the worst - and made to put the fear in folks who scare easily. And sadly...it works on more people than I would have thought previously. You can't make someone "un-scared" (really Nikki? Grammar much?) - and if someone is truly afraid to return to a place based on a theory such as that then they should not return. But the theory is baseless and put forth for dramatic purposes only. That to me is "hysterical", Webster definition aside.
Now you're misleading people in a bad way. To tell people that those aren't areas where a tourist is likely to be is just wrong. I'm frequently in the direct vicinity of Lime Tree. A lot. I'm a tourist. And no, I'm not doing anything that I shouldn't be doing.
There is no "sky is falling shit", just legit concern on the part of frequent guests and newbies alike. To try to tell them there's basically no chance this affects them is wrong. It's frustrating. Especially when you insist on talking down to people who don't live there.
She doesn't live there either. Because I haven't been travelling there for 30 years, and don't vacation there for what is it- 2, no 3, no 2 1/2 months a year for the last 12 years, my opinion doesn't mean shit, apparently.
We have thoroughly enjoyed all our trips to Jamaica and will most likely return, but I stand by my words from weeks ago - its only a matter of time before an innocent traveller takes a stray bullet. Like I said, handguns aren't built for accuracy.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Tim - 03-15-2015
(03-14-2015, 05:13 PM)IJ Wrote: " That to me is "hysterical", Webster definition aside. "
Yeah, what would Webster know about definitions......?
You disregard the definition of a word, instead of admitting you used it incorrectly, much as you disregard the current situation in Negril in an attempt to add value to your opinion.
Doesn't work for me.
There was a shooting just outside Red Dragon while I was having a beer inside and many "tourists" were in the area. One could very easily have been shot - and I do not need you telling me it cannot happen.
There was a shooting at Corner Bar with several tourists in the area. One could very easily have been shot there also - regardless of your opinion.
The shooting next to Collette's (sp), was on the main street up to Red Dragon - I suppose these Gunmen are so thoughtful of tourist that we could never be in harm’s way there either....?
There was a shooting on Norman Manley Boulevard reported and it happened in the middle of the day with tourist in the area. A bad shot or a ricochet could easily hit a tourist in this type situation.
The latest shooting on Lime Tree Lane was just off the corner of One Love Drive. Tourists are clearly in range of gunfire even if they are not on Lime Tree Lane.
Your horse$#*! opinion and your agenda do nothing for the good of Negril. In fact, if believed it puts many people in harm’s way, because it is total BS.
The violence in Negril is escalating rapidly. The locals are talking about it all over Negril. I do not have to get my news from the internet, so don't tell me that is the only reason more of it is being mentioned - that is total BS. There was crime in Negril 30 years ago, but nothing remotely close to the violence happening daily now.
In the past 30 years I have averaged over 3 trips a year to Negril.
I have spent over 2 years living in Negril. The increase in violence is not only Real, it is alarming. You do not have to take my opinion or ask a local for theirs. Just listen for a short while and the subject will come up among locals in their everyday conversation. Bartenders worried about closing up late nights. Worries about getting home late. Worries about the increase in robberies, increase in thieves, the influx of criminals from other parts of the island, increase in guns & gun violence, increase in murders - the talk is real and can be heard all over Negril.
It is just a matter of time before a tourist is shot and I imagine you will try to color that as the tourist fault too.
"They shouldn't have been in that area."
"They shouldn't have been out that late."
"They should have taken more precautions."
"They were drunk."
"Everyone knows not to go there."
“If they had used a little street smarts or just listened, there would not have been a problem.”
“They should have used some common sense.”
Blah, Blah, Blah, Bumbaclot!
The BLAME is not on the tourists rather it is on the gunman and the citizens and business owners in Negril.
The local community needs to step up and stop this violent activity & Now.
People blaming tourists for crimes committed against them are not just ignorant, but they are some low-life individuals. Locals unwilling to come forward with evidence against these thugs are equally to blame. Many business owners allow these criminals to hang around their properties and that is also disgusting.
This type of violence Does NOT Occur Everywhere – there has been one murder ( it was by someone from another town that followed someone here & killed him) in my community of over 120,000, in the recorded history. When a crime is executed in my community, witnesses step up, give information to authorities and help in the capture of those that committed the crime. Many of the criminals in Negril are known to be so by the local citizens. A task force needs to be set up to eliminate this scum from their town. If the police do not want to step up, perhaps a little vigilante group needs to be formed to eradicate these low-life criminals.
Best post on this subject I have read. Thank you for saying what others refuse to.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - TAH - 03-15-2015
(03-15-2015, 12:00 AM)Tim Wrote:(03-14-2015, 02:50 PM)TAH Wrote:(03-14-2015, 01:15 PM)rastagirl777 Wrote: "If it were truly only on Lime sreet that would be different but problem appears to be broader than just that one lane/street since you even mentioned problems on the beach unless I misread."
Regarding the SHOOTINGS (not the opportunistic robberies with no injuries) the ones that happened did happen on Lime Tree Lane, the other on Sommerset Lane at 4:00am (in the course of a robbery). These are two areas that tourists do not frequent. Hysterical/Sky is Falling comments to which I reacted concerned the theory that tourists MIGHT get caught up in shootings such as these - a fear based comment based in no truth, just speculation of the worst - and made to put the fear in folks who scare easily. And sadly...it works on more people than I would have thought previously. You can't make someone "un-scared" (really Nikki? Grammar much?) - and if someone is truly afraid to return to a place based on a theory such as that then they should not return. But the theory is baseless and put forth for dramatic purposes only. That to me is "hysterical", Webster definition aside.
Now you're misleading people in a bad way. To tell people that those aren't areas where a tourist is likely to be is just wrong. I'm frequently in the direct vicinity of Lime Tree. A lot. I'm a tourist. And no, I'm not doing anything that I shouldn't be doing.
There is no "sky is falling shit", just legit concern on the part of frequent guests and newbies alike. To try to tell them there's basically no chance this affects them is wrong. It's frustrating. Especially when you insist on talking down to people who don't live there.
She doesn't live there either. Because I haven't been travelling there for 30 years, and don't vacation there for what is it- 2, no 3, no 2 1/2 months a year for the last 12 years, my opinion doesn't mean shit, apparently.
We have thoroughly enjoyed all our trips to Jamaica and will most likely return, but I stand by my words from weeks ago - its only a matter of time before an innocent traveller takes a stray bullet. Like I said, handguns aren't built for accuracy.
I know.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - JamaGinger - 03-15-2015
I don't know if everyone saw this article from a few weeks ago ( http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/lead-stories/20150225/negril-woman-killed-lotto-scam-related-shooting ), but it points to the influx of criminals to Negril because of the lottery scam. As a long-time visitor (not as long as many), I remember when I first saw the "Dan Rather Reports" story about the lottery scam and became very alarmed and honestly quite stunned by what was going on. I have tried to keep up with what the Jamaican authorities have attempted to do the stop the lottery scam, but it appears it continues to be at the root of many issues in Jamaica. It just shows that greed, as is the case with numerous concerns in the U.S., is very likely at the heart of the growth of the criminal element in Negril.
Rastagrl has pointed out several times that things started to change in Negril once the new road opened up the area. Perhaps this is true. It makes the area more accessible to the criminals. And, since it is a beautiful beach area, naturally these nouveau riche scammers want to be there. I will never forget reading one newspaper article about the scammer who had so much cash, he was burning it for fire wood. Whatever the reason, I personally have noticed more criminal-seeming personalities there. As I have been reading all of these comments about the situation, I have hoped that it was just another "wave of concern" which might too pass as the others have previously. But, when the U.S. Embassy posts alerts like the following, it makes me believe this isn't going to fade away like the rest. What was interesting about the below link was the gentleman who has the "other" message board seemed to be discounting the below alert. I never did quite make out his point.
http://kingston.usembassy.gov/travelalerts05032015.html
I don't know what the Jamaican authorities will do to stop the rise of the criminal element there. My fear is that they will feel the need to become so aggressive that many innocent Jamaicans will fall victim to their attempts to stop the rise of crime. I pray for the Jamaican people that this criminal ulcer growing within the society will be stopped and soon.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - JamaGinger - 03-15-2015
And, in fairness, I should point out that I would never have seen the Embassy alert had the gentleman not posted it himself, so he definitely deserves the credit for posting it.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - rastagirl777 - 03-15-2015
I finally found that "alert". Didn't know embassies can do that...the way it read to me was kind of like an ongoing thing - if you are on-island be careful? Nothing from the State Department, not in a year now.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - rastagirl777 - 03-15-2015
BUT...I will say this - if you are a victim of crime there or anywhere foreign, report it to the embassy. I have a feeling that is what might have prompted that alert.
RE: letter to Observer - Cancelled Negril visit - Westenders - 03-15-2015
There has been a massive crackdown on the lottery scammers over the last couple of years.
Western Union even temporarily closed all their offices in the St. Ann parish because it got so bad. WU are working closely with the JA govt on this. One of the measures was to introduce a requirement that a TRN number is required to collect money, so the govt could monitor incoming money, and see where it could be collecting taxes.
Food for thought here, but what if the crackdown has meant that crime has risen in negril, as scamming funded a lot of people, not just the fat cats. You used to see lines round the building at HiLo a couple of years ago, no exaggerating.
Also all the scammers in St.ann will have had to spread their collectors out into other parish offices.
The scammers used to pay a little to anyone they could get to collect the money from the WU, their neighbour, uncle, great grandmother, three legged dog.....and this is what the girl may have been doing who got shot.
The scams then brought an extra cycle of violent crime, that general tourists will probably not have been aware of...I myself have seen enough local men hanging in that car park waiting to rob one of these collectors. I know that for a first hand fact. They in turn would then be shot for robbing that money. I also know of quite a few of these shootings...as in know the person who is now dead..not heard it on the grapevine.
The drive by shooting I witnessed a couple of years ago was for this exact reason. Young Man face down in the dirt with a bullet hole in his cheek and his shin bone sticking out of his leg from another shot. He had robbed a collector ... And the next man in line came after him.
100 yards from negril police station...did they come out and investigate or even help?? What do you think!!
Last couple of visits I see a lot of the guys in the area and over in Hanover and Sav way who used to live life large on lottery scam profits...they are now broke, due to the crackdown..struggling and suffering as they say.
So what do some of these people do, who are used to getting foreign level money?? They try and get foreign level money a different way....and the beat goes on!!
What I can't seem to see in a lot of these alleged robberies though, except for a few is people talking about their own experience, rather than on the Internet drum..not a lot of specifics....and too many people starting their posts with "I heard"...and only a couple saying they made official reports to the police...no point talking to the tourist police. They work for guardsman so are just glorified security officers.
Great point about victims of crime should be reporting what happened to them to their countries embassy in jamaica, maybe that's that way, accurate crime recordings can be accrued that aren't subject to the usual corruption, then hopefully political pressure by our embassy's can be applied to the area politicians and policing team....and maybe things can improve....or maybe it will get worse.
I agree with RG that we should also be contacting the relevant organisations in negril...chewing the fat in here is not going to change much....the other guy reckons his site is per used by those authorities / organisations...no wonder they don't think there is any tourist concern....even TA has left a thread up!