Jeannieb's trip report was thought provoking for me and truly brought up a lot of memories and my feelings of my beloved Jamaica.

What variables could have changed their experience?

Black tourist vs. White tourist

Understanding patios vs. not understanding patois.

Sharing with locals vs. not sharing with locals

4 men vs. 4 women

I have been vacationing in Jamaica (mostly Negril) since 1995, and was blessed to have a extended stay of 6 months in "99" , the entire 6 months I lived in a yard in Montego Bay and Ocho Rios.

What a eye opener for me. Before my 6 months stay I was making plans to move to Jamaica on a permanent basis. Living in Jamaica and being a tourist, no comparison! I would rather be a tourist! LOL! I still LOVE Jamaica, especially Negril however I have long since lost the desire to live there....even if I hit the lottery I would not live in Jamaica. You can best believe that I would go more often (have not been in about 3yrs) and stay longer but living there is not a option for many different reasons, number one on my list is the government, too corrupt for me, yes I know that all governments are corrupt but in Jamaica the corruption takes on a sinister sense to me. Bad-mindness and jealousy of "some" of the people, again I know this is everywhere but somehow it seems different in Jamaica to me.

Okay, I am rambling now LOL, but I would love to have a discussion on board on YOUR thoughts!

You're not rambling. Great start. I ask myself the same questions you listed above. I too am interested in others views.

As just as observer and nothing else..1. Wasn't it white tourists ,gay tourists 2. I thought it was English VS Italian 3. I thought it was 2 men 2 women. You've asked a hard bunch of questions.

Being a tourists vs living there and dealing with the day-to-day living in Jam...There is no comparison-It's a whole other world that certainly wouldn't be a "good fit" for many..I dont even live there full time or even 6mos at a time-But do rent a place out in the country-and my limited amount of stays there and dealing with "the yard life" not to mention the family/neighbor dynamics is something no one can really prepare you for-you got exp.it for yourself.On top of that trying to deal with electricity, water, internet sevices and basic repairs is a test of patience and akin to being in the "twilight zone".Like many aspects of dealing with life in Jam (at least compared to living in the states of course)

Yeah, its not easy-but I still call it my "adopted 2nd home country" -a place I want to go back to for now in my life.. Living there Full time/permanently-right now I'd have to say No...

Given my medical situation (Type 1 Diabetes and now breast cancer!), I know that I would never be able to live in Jamaica. After this latest diagnosis, even Costa Rica, a place that Don & I thought that we'd eventually retire, I think is out. When I retire from the public school system in 3 years, my health insurance will be here in Arkansas only....so I must stay.

Beyond that......a very thought-provoking question.....I still think that living/retiring in Jamaica would be very, very difficult. I know a few that have done it, and done it really well!!! My hat is off to them, for sure. But I'm not sure that I have the energy, stamina & patience that it would take to do it. The problems with electricity, water, etc. sound insurmountable sometimes. For instance, I am shocked that The Animal House Jamaica does all that it does, taking care of nearly 100 dogs, with their water interruptions!! And they have been trying to get dog crates that were donated to them delivered for weeks/months - still not there!! It seems like living there & trying to do things to help vulnerable people & creatures would be like pushing a HUGE boulder uphill!!! Not sure I could do that.

I do love Jamaica; her people, her culture, her music, her food, her tropical beauty & many of her attitudes. However, I do have huge problems with the government there. It seems so corrupt & not in it "for the people." In particular, the education situation really bugs me. So short-sighted, for the only way for a society to really succeed is to educate its people, when they are children! My 80 year-old mother noticed this after talking with mothers & grandmothers down there & she had a big problem with it. It seems like the working people are really on a "hamster wheel," spinning round & round, not getting very far in life for the amount of energy they expend. So unfair!

~ romae ~ wrote:

'What variables could have changed their experience?

Black tourist vs. White tourist

Understanding patios vs. not understanding patois.

Sharing with locals vs. not sharing with locals

4 men vs. 4 women '

Thinking a little more about this, these are my thoughts and what could have been different...maybe.

1. Us 4 are white. We kinda stuck out. lol. We might have not been as noticed as much if we were black but I don't think it would have made much difference. We would still be seen as foreigners,

2. Understanding Patois would have helped a lot! I would have been more aware of what was going on and being said about us, instead of having to rely on someone else to translate for us.

3. Sharing vs. not sharing. Well...I don't know. We have so much more than most of the people we encountered. I know that some are better off than we are but if we can make someone's day a little brighter by sharing a little of what we have, than I'm gonna keep on sharing. Now I could go and not share at all but then we might be seen as being greedy or selfish (which I heard a few times being said about some of the other tourists *cough*italians*cough*)<< Not my thinking, what I heard. I share at home with neighbors, friends and strangers so I will continue to keep doing so elsewhere.

* a little story our good friend Dingo told us a couple years ago. He was in Kingston selling his fish. He saw a man looking at him funny. He went up and started chatting to him. He bought him a beer. After a few drinks the man told him "I was thinking about robbing you, but after talking to you, I realized that you are a good man". Dingo said sometimes it's just better to put yourself out there and meet people and give them a little something, because they can take it if they want to.

4. 4 men vs 4 women.

There were 4 of us. 2 men, 2 women.

hmmm

Honestly I doubt anything would have changed their experience. Because they are white and tourists.

If anyone thinks they can blend in with the locals they are fooling themselves. Whether you speak patois or not there are still so many 'ways', 'looks', sayings that you have to be born and raised to comprehend them.

Since my first trip in 1978 much as changed. Unless the jamaican government grow some balls and starts making the off shore investors a) build schools and fund them, b) upgrade the infrastructure, c) build hospitals and fund them and d) pay off shore wages...the country will always be poor.

I also fear for the country as all the eggs are in one basket there...tourism. Bamboo is their best resource and is coveted world wide. IMO that's where the investment should be made in Bamboo fields.

Unless the locals are allowed to leave I see no end to the aggressiveness towards tourists.

After building two houses there I know I would never live there permanently. When I retire we will live in Jamaica for 3 months in the winter and the rest in Canada where there is health care

"Unless the locals are allowed to leave I see no end to the aggressiveness towards tourists.".... It's not the Jamaican government that stps the travel, it's the country they want to go to that has the say.

thanks Jeannie LOL girl if that were their 'product' they'd be the riches country on the planet!!!

OT...yes and no. If their government advocated on their behalf and opened up those lines then that would not be the case. There still are some countries where they can travel....like Switzerland for instance. Himself lived there for 1.5 years.

I keep trying to respond but have to erase. Think I'll just keep my thoughts to myself on this one.